The Egyptian authorities allow a maximum of 25 years of age difference between couples, but there are cases where this rule is broken if the man agrees to deposit a good amount of money in the bank for his wife (i.e. help the wife and Egyptian economy at the same time). I understand why someone wanting to escape poverty for a better life would agree to such a marriage. I also understand the mentality of this old man as he is from a culture that views women’s sole existence as being for the pleasure of men and purchasing women is not a new thing. However it annoys me when it is Westerners going off to poor countries to buy people. The type of people I am talking about are naive middle-aged white women and increasingly Black Muslim converts. How do they feel knowing that their spouse is only with them for the money or the passport they possess? Morocco is a country which best illustrates this point because its citizens frequently marry Western foreigners.
If you are looking to get married to a foreigner it is necessary to learn their custom, traditions and general perceptions. In Arab culture marriage to a black person is looked down upon. It equates to contaminating one’s pure Arab blood, as black equals ugliness, unattractiveness and lowliness. If you are a descendant of slavery, then that is even more of a reason not to marry that person, as they are deemed to have no identity. It’s a culture that holds the white man as superior and the black man as inferior to them. But poverty often forces people to put to one side their beliefs and thus welcome ‘Westerners’ with open arms, hoping their daughter will send them money and a passport once they reach the West. People in countries like Morocco hold the view that a black man from the West is looking to marry an “Arab” woman for upward mobility reasons, according to them his interest in their women stems from a need to raise his lowly status. How else would they explain a man from the West coming to a poor country like Morocco for marriage? Yet those brothers are happy to wave their passports once they land in Morocco because that is the only thing that distinguishes them from the thousands of West African refugees that descend on Morocco hoping to reach Europe. Without that passport no one will give them the time of the day, let alone finding a bride.
Some converts in conversations always like to drop that their wife is an Arab as if that is something to be proud of, I am sure their wives would not be so forthcoming with their husband’s ethnicity though. Also I have heard stories where the woman speaks no English and he speaks no Arabic. What type of marriage is that? I wonder if those brothers suffer from lack of dignity and pride or have they fallen for this myth that being a Muslim is enough to transcend cultural barriers and that “we are all brothers, akhee”.
I really despise this lie that we are simply all one Ummah and that our sole identity is Islam. It’s a myth being perpetrated by some Western Muslims and all Islamists. Muslims in the West like to evoke it when it comes to issues like Palestine or gatherings in Islamic events. These are meaningless empty words with no substance, which is not necessarily a bad thing. The Islamists like to shout about it in order to unify us under one ideology that only serves their political aims. I believe God has created us to be different; we are a product of our cultures and upbringing. We can be unified under the principles of Islam but that is not the be all and end all of our identity. It does not mean we become homogenous and adopt or confine to one culture or way of behaving. Faith is an act of worship and it is a personal and private matter first and foremost, it is not sufficient enough to create marriage, friendship or bridge the massive cultural gap.
The same applies for white women who marry foreigners from abroad; they have this foolish notion that ‘love conquers all’. A Moroccan man is raised with the promise he will marry a virgin who will look after his elderly parents and have children to carry the family name. Marrying a middle aged woman is not going to fulfill that dream. Another thing to consider is that Morocco is a patriarchal, male dominated society and marriage is not always based on love but reproduction. There is also a perception of European women being cheap, easy and incapable of being faithful to one man and that is not a good start for any relationship. I am not saying all such marriages are doomed but having common ground is crucial, for example a middle class, educated Moroccan man of a similar age would probably be more suited to a Western Woman.
I conclude by saying that I am opposed to such marriages which are based upon people being ignorant of how others truly perceive them and where it is often a meal-ticket for the other party out of poverty. Although there may be a few instances where such marriages ‘work out’ (i.e. they remain married), it must be noted that even in these instances there are often ugly dynamics at play behind the scenes, that undermine the quality of such marriages of convenience. If this wasn’t the case why aren’t these black brothers marrying young, single Moroccans who are already in the West? There are massive Moroccan diasporan communities in the West in countries such as the UK, France, Holland and to a lesser degree the US. You often hear about immigrant single women who attempt to marry a non-Moroccan in the West and the family refuses and threaten disownment or even violence. However, people who have traveled to Morocco for marriage tend to comment on the warm welcome that they receive from the family of their intended spouse????? There may be one or two odd exceptions, but an exception doesn’t make a rule.
Filed under: Marriage, Race | Tagged: Black Converts, Marriage, Morocco, Muslims, Reverts, Western Women
We try to teach brothers that this is not the way. However, they are weak individuals. I as an AA would never even contemplate marrying an Arab, Indian, Pakistani or other non-west african woman.
We need a movement against such false propaganda.
I do not look at non-AA as special and better than my fellow AA muslims.
We in WD community know better for the most part. We have some misguided individuals who eventually will be shunned for falling for this.
Salaam
Excellent piece
[...] of Convenience Posted on July 4, 2008 by Tariq Nelson Kalimaat has an excellent article on the naivete displayed by converts when they go overseas to get married with romantic visions of [...]
Sure Ron, because a West-African woman is going to be more like you than an american raised “Arab, Indian, Pakistani or other non-west african woman” based on what?
Oh right, skin color.
A totally backwards, 1970’s, quasi-NOI view of what it means to be African-American and Muslim.
West African culture is as different from AA culture as any of the others and the marriages tend to have just as many problems
Kaalimat,
THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU. I really don’t know what else to say.
Hello kalimaat,
Welcome to blogging. I have read the posts you have put up, so far, and have some points.
Let me start with a quote from one of your posts
“He is able to say what the average man on the streets of the Middle East feels.”
and in another post you make a statement and assume causal links, or at least correlations, between, on the one hand, ’sexualising social interactions’ in relation to, on the other hand, certain norms and customs. You also talk how the culture in Yemen is.
The problem here is that you identify certain observations, which you may have seen or come across and generalise with no empirical evidence. Also you assume ‘culture’ as unproblematic and how it is objectified by people in their ‘norms and values’. What I am saying is that you seem to rationalise and justify that Yemenis, or whomever, are backward because of certain cultural traits. This despite no empirical evidence cited to make or back the claim regarding the reality of your observation having these traits distinctly. There is no demonstration of at least correlation to identify a trend in relation to these supposed traits. Compare these observations to ,for example, Arabs or Pakistani (really Muslims) being backwards because of supposed religious practice e.g. honour killings. Yet we hear persons making these claims when assuming or wanting to assume a reality based upon preconceived notions. This is what we call cultural racism, grading and ranking people based upon prejudiced preconceived ideas, even if not demonstrated. Often a social phenomenon could have many multiple causal factors working at one time, each contributing in so many ways (social class to me has always been one of the main explanations of many trends), as societies are complex, but the racist views a people through an exclusive mythic tunnel vision and makes judgment based upon his/her prejudice. Remember racism is about practice and not rationale. The rationale changes but racism continues, how then can we explain the systematic discrimination that ethnic minorities and African Americans continue to suffer in America, especially in education? Have a read at this good and clear article on cultural racism:
http://mdcbowen.org/p2/rm/theory/blaut.htm
Second, we should not assume an unproblematic understanding of ‘culture’. In sociology at least, it is one of the more disputed areas. Can we talk of ‘culture’, is there anything even called American or Spanish ‘culture’? How do we relate ‘culture’ (assuming that such thing exists) with patterned social relations or learned behaviour (assuming that such thing exists). Are they one and the same? If these cultural traits are part of the way people interact with the world, how do they internalize it? All these questions have implications on how we study any given cultural phenomenon …
Basically, I am saying commenting on the social necessitates that we study it systematically and make comments based upon evidence and theoretical conceptions (that help us make sense of empirical studies, critique empirical studies or apply it when doing empirical studies). In other words, it is about being sociological and thinking sociologically i.e. critically. Remember racism can often be very subtle, it is latent and subconscious, we may not note it, but it is these attitudes that become cyclical and the end result can be then seen in observable trends.
Sorry for being long winded!
Take care …
Interesting observation, but you generalize in a way that if someone did us as AA’s we would cry foul.
Basem
There is no empiracal evidence for issues such as sexual harrassment in the Middle East. If i have experienced it and every female i know living in Sanaa had the same experience, then not only does it exist but it is widespread.
Culture varies even in one country and i should have made a disctinction between south and north Yemen in my post but i was specifically talking about my own experience living in Sanaa and what i think the causes are of sexual harrassment. However in this post i can make a generalisation that it is against the cultural norms of Arabs to marry their daughters to foreigners or their sons to middle aged women.
Jay
I didnt get what you were trying to say.
‘There is no empiracal evidence for issues such as sexual harrassment in the Middle East. If i have experienced it and every female i know living in Sanaa had the same experience, then not only does it exist but it is widespread.’
I am not discounting your experience, nor the experiences of your friends. Without doubt it exists in many countries, but it would be a logical jump to say it is a Yemeni thing (distinctly) or even an Arab thing, and then to make a further causal link with the niqaab or any other dress + ways of living or cultural traits that you assume are Yemeni things (or the north of Yemen).
Sexual harrasment exists in many countries and is widespread, that stats in America are stark. But I wouldn’t jump and say it is ‘American culture’ . Sexism and misogny are worldwide problems, but let us not assume or want to assume it is causally linked to certain supposed cultures and people.
Second, you haven’t defined what you mean by culture and how it relates to social relations, or if there is something called culture or assume it to be stagnant or in one form across a whole society. ‘Culture’ is a deeply problematic concept and I wouldn’t use it as a given, as in North or South Yemeni ‘culture’. It has to be refined conceptually at least and more importantly how do we account for many causal factors as well?
Finally this point
” i can make a generalisation that it is against the cultural norms of Arabs to marry their daughters to foreigners or their sons to middle aged women.”
Well that follows from the points I have been previously making.
Its OK for anyone to have an opinion as to what a person should look for when they get married, but in Islam, as long as there is a contractual agreement between the potential wife, her guardian and the man asking her hand in marriage (assuming all are Muslims) then the marriage is valid. All Muslims have cultural baggage that wasnot shaken off after the people became Muslim, and Arabs are no different from anyone else in this regard. I’m African American and I have made a personal crusade to be less focused on how Arabs and other Muslims feel about my Black skin, and have redirected towards the Quran and Sunnah. If a brother wants to marry a Moroccan sister (in most cases that I know of, its due to the language) and all parties agree, then who am I to protest what Allah has made Halaal for them to do? Not that it matters, but I do know African American Muslim brothers that have married young Moroccan sisters while the sister is in the US.
@ Abu Imran
‘Not that it matters, but I do know African American Muslim brothers that have married young Moroccan sisters while the sister is in the US.’
Here in the UK there are too many examples of Black brothers who have married UK based (i.e passport isn’t the issue) non-black arabs and Indian subcontinentals! Nevertheless, only the most foolhardy would deny that usually 1) there are further dynamics/major extenuating circumstances behind the scenes 2) there is virtually always a massive amount of resistance and antagonism to such marriages.
Also there is a difference between being FOCUSED and OBSESSSED with how others are likely to perceive you and your behaviour and being appreciative and taking into account how others are likely to perceive you and your behaviour. By being aware you can make informed and sensible choices.
For example, if I intend to go to Masjid Tawheed in Philly encouraging people to go away with Tabligh or go to Zaytuna institute, its likely that I will be perceived a certain way. Thus before I go there it would be nice if I was an given an honest general idea of the culture and norms of the people in that environment. Thus, I can make an informed and sound judgement. If I choose to ignore this advice or I am aware there are other dynamics at play, at least I’ve been given the naseehah.
@ Basem
This subject matter is real life! It is not an abstract academic thesis or term paper for a Phd.
@ UK Brother,
all your points are well taken. May Allah reward you. In regards to the 2 points that you mentioned in your first paragraph, I would hope that a Muslim that desires to marry someone of a different culture where conditions that you mentioned must be considered, would in fact take those factors into account when deciding to go into such are relationship. I may not personally choice to undertake such a great challenge, but as you stated providing naseehah to someone that would, is the obligation of those that have knowledge of these difficulties. Ultimately it is up to the 3 parties involved to make the final decision as to the direction they choose to go.
In regards to my mention of being focused on the Quran and Sunnah, I wanted to stress the point that my black skin is not an automatic statement of my behavior, and it is in no may my fault that Arabs or other cultures may look down on me because i’m Black. My point is that if we focus more on improving ourselves as Muslims, we won’t be so sensitive to the issue of racism between Muslims. Part of focusing on the Quran and Sunnah is making a conscious effort to improve our character and behavior, is it not?
I must apologize for the gist of your final paragraph. I didn’t mean to imply that we shouldn’t take into account other’s culture issues (I didn’t mention that at all). I did mention that all Muslims have baggage that we need to work on and that we shouldn’t single out any individual culture when it comes to racism in particular, because I think this is a problem that many muslim cultures are dealing with.
@ Abu Imran
Jezakallahu Khayr- I think we’re both on the same wavelength! Total agreement with what have you said. Your words are a good naseehah.
السلام عليكم و رحمة الله وبركاته
اختي في الله كلمات اكلمك كمسلمة مغربية و اقول لك اختي أنني لا اسامحك و لا أسامح أيا ممن أيدك لما قلته عنا دون استثناء و اختي يوم الوقوف أمام الله ستحاسبين على كل كلمة القيتها في حق كل مغربية مؤمنة لم تأذك لا من بعيد و لا من قريب
و أفتخر أن زوجي افريقي أمريكي و احبه حبا في الله و أشهد الله أنني لا أطمع إلا في حسن العشرة معه و أن أكون له زوجة بالجنة الله آمين
و اختي أنصحك إن كنت تتكلمين بإسم الإسلام أن تتعلميه أولا لا يكفي قولك لا اله إلا الله محمد رسول الله اختي فاإيمان ما قر في القلب و وافقه العمل و تذكري اختي انك لا تسلمين حتى تحبي للأخيك ما تحبينه لنفسك فكيف و أنت تدعين للتفرقة بين المسلمين؟ و كيف تقولين انك لا تؤمنين أننا أمة واحدة و تخالفين قول اللذي شهدت أنه رسول الله صلى الله عليه و سلم لما قال لا فرق بين عربي ولا عجمي إلا بالتقوى؟؟
لا تأخذي من الدين ما يوافق هواك و ترمي ما يخالفه و تذكري اختي أن كل من قرأ المقال و كتب يشجعك و يصفق لك سيكون عليك شاهدا يوم القيامة
السلام عليكم
Having lived in Morocco for more than 4 years as a black man, I can tell there is a tiny minority of Moroccans who do not hold a negative view of black people. Most of the Moroccans, whether or not they accept it, look down on black people, and do not hesitate to call them by names that are very derogatory.
Morocco is a difficult place. Poverty is widespread. Many Moroccan women are unfit for ‘good mothers’. Prostitution is very common, and many Moroccan men do not behave islamically toward women. However, good Moroccan Muslims who practice islam and sunnah are good husbands and good wives. To experiment the brother’s stance, try to marry a Moroccan living in the West or go to Morocco and present youirself as a subsaharian African
@ UK Brother
‘This subject matter is real life! It is not an abstract academic thesis or term paper for a Phd.’
I agree, that is why trying to exhaust the topic, to best of our ability, is the way forward. We can’t tackle a supposed social problem unless we first explain how it came about and more importantly how the social trends emerge in the first place. Both are linked together and cannot be separated. Because the way I understand the social in the first place has a huge effect on how I study how a social trend may appear.
That is why when we try to explain what this thing called ‘culture’ is or how it emerges or how we explain social patterns, has a knock on effect on thing then studied. More the way we understand social causality has a effect on how we can link people’s beliefs and behaviour with given observable trends.
I don’t see these things as abstract at all! In fact it should be at the centre of the education system and how a curriculum is taught in our schools. In other words, we should teach children and adults to think critically and exhaustively, just in case we get a politician, religious leader or whatever using people’s emotions for political or material gain.
As long as we live our existence focused on how we are accepted or rejected amongst other people by issues that we have no control over (color of skin), then the longer we will stay weak and be slaves to others expectations, and work less to seek the favor of Allah. True imaan is seeking the face of Allah, not seeking the approval of those that hate Allah’s creation.
Mashallah, the Arabic message is from a sister from Morroco (Proud that I am Muslimah is her name). Subhanllah, she wrote an excellent reminder Barak Allah Fee ha. She is addressing sister Kalimaat in her response. Its very powerful message. The sister mentions that she has an African American husband that she loves him very much, and she wants to be with him in Jannah (its difficult for me to translate, but its very touching the way she describes it in Arabic). The gist of her post is that when we write in the name of Islam, we are writing with the understanding that there is no God but Allah and Muhammed is his final messenger. We are not truly believers until we want for our brothers what we want for ourselves. How can anyone that calls them self a Muslim, call for the support of dividing the Muslim Ummah? How can a person be a Muslim if they do not accept that we are one Ummah as the Prophet said? The Prophet said that their is no difference between an Arab and a non Arab except in taqwah. How can we be a believer if we don’t believe in this statement? As Muslims we can not take from the Islam what we like and discard what we don’t like. All those that write in a way of supporting divisiveness between Muslims are doing so as a testament against their own souls on the day of judgment.
I agree with the sister 100%.
salam alikom , thx sister فخورة أن أكون مسلمةjazaki Allah khayran , we get some good rewards from them they talk bad about us m and only Allah knows the inetntions ,
about teh article i BELEIVE its written by jalousy , so no time to unswer
also soem comments deserve no comments honestly ,
salam
i am moroccan sister married black muslim man from america. i divorced after 1year. we all marry to come to the west we hate the black men in our culture just if they have money its ok until we get passport. all black men moslems i tell you now your moroccan wives are just playing the game with you that we learnt in school. to go to west whichever way possible. now im married happy to arab moroccan, i sleep peace at night next to man i love not black man stranger who no understand me.
salam